Comments on: McLaren steps up ‘Renaultgate’ attack http://formula1sport.net/formula-1/mclaren-steps-up-renaultgate-attack/ Daily F1 News & Rumors Wed, 07 Jan 2009 04:41:34 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.5 By: Clive http://formula1sport.net/formula-1/mclaren-steps-up-renaultgate-attack/#comment-16815 Clive Mon, 26 Nov 2007 13:37:23 +0000 http://formula1sport.net/formula-1/mclaren-steps-up-renaultgate-attack/#comment-16815 And I think the Times is trying to sell newspapers, Number 38. I am quite sure that McLaren bringing up the Renault business is a matter of hitting back but I don't think the target is Flavio - it's Max. Real racing will return when they get rid of Max, change the structure of the FIA, limit the influence of aerodynamics, free up the regulations, relegate financial considerations to their proper place, etc. Need I go on? And I think the Times is trying to sell newspapers, Number 38. I am quite sure that McLaren bringing up the Renault business is a matter of hitting back but I don’t think the target is Flavio - it’s Max.

Real racing will return when they get rid of Max, change the structure of the FIA, limit the influence of aerodynamics, free up the regulations, relegate financial considerations to their proper place, etc. Need I go on?

]]> By: Number 38 http://formula1sport.net/formula-1/mclaren-steps-up-renaultgate-attack/#comment-16809 Number 38 Mon, 26 Nov 2007 12:18:38 +0000 http://formula1sport.net/formula-1/mclaren-steps-up-renaultgate-attack/#comment-16809 I'm getting 'mixed signals' here ....... I think my friend is a McLaren sympathizer, he feels Ron Dennis/McLaren are "merely providing what info they have" but The Times branded McLaren’s efforts a “concerted attack” against Flavio Briatore/Renault. I think a reasonable person can read between the lines, 'co-operating' with the FIA to look good but at the same time hoping for maximun impact against an opponnet. I have to admit I'm a 'sympathizer' also, the $100 mil fine was un-necessary, it was ALSO a vendetta against an opponnet, MadMax vs Ron Dennis. Read the tea leaves, Dennis has to be upset with old Flav, Alonso didn't work out, the Renault spying is inconsequential but let's 'pile-on' while we can, this is BIG business, it's expected !!! When will real racing return? I’m getting ‘mixed signals’ here ……. I think my friend is a McLaren sympathizer, he feels Ron Dennis/McLaren are “merely providing what info they have” but The Times branded McLaren’s efforts a “concerted attack” against Flavio Briatore/Renault. I think a reasonable person can read between the lines, ‘co-operating’ with the FIA to look good but at the same time hoping for maximun impact against an opponnet. I have to admit I’m a ’sympathizer’ also, the $100 mil fine was un-necessary, it was ALSO a vendetta against an opponnet, MadMax vs Ron Dennis. Read the tea leaves, Dennis has to be upset with old Flav, Alonso didn’t work out, the Renault spying is inconsequential but let’s ‘pile-on’ while we can, this is BIG business, it’s expected !!! When will real racing return?

]]> By: Clive http://formula1sport.net/formula-1/mclaren-steps-up-renaultgate-attack/#comment-16780 Clive Sun, 25 Nov 2007 23:02:18 +0000 http://formula1sport.net/formula-1/mclaren-steps-up-renaultgate-attack/#comment-16780 Actually, I don't believe either of them used the information, Number 38. My point was that the FIA started the whole thing by deciding to investigate McLaren prematurely and then pursuing a vendetta against McLaren. Ron Dennis advised the FIA of the Renault's possession of their info at the time of the WMSC hearing, presumably to show that espionage goes on in F1, in effect warning them that whatever they did to him, they would have to do to Renault. Max chose to go ahead with it anyway and now must deal with Renault. McLaren are merely providing what info they have - just as Ferrari did against them. Actually, I don’t believe either of them used the information, Number 38. My point was that the FIA started the whole thing by deciding to investigate McLaren prematurely and then pursuing a vendetta against McLaren. Ron Dennis advised the FIA of the Renault’s possession of their info at the time of the WMSC hearing, presumably to show that espionage goes on in F1, in effect warning them that whatever they did to him, they would have to do to Renault. Max chose to go ahead with it anyway and now must deal with Renault. McLaren are merely providing what info they have - just as Ferrari did against them.

]]> By: Number 38 http://formula1sport.net/formula-1/mclaren-steps-up-renaultgate-attack/#comment-16779 Number 38 Sun, 25 Nov 2007 21:16:26 +0000 http://formula1sport.net/formula-1/mclaren-steps-up-renaultgate-attack/#comment-16779 Renault didn't seem to GAIN anything from McLaren's info, infact one might consider it RETARDED them !!!!! What I don't understand is why this Renault/McLaren issue is going forward. To sluff this off as an FIA project isn't completely true, read the title of this article, "McLAREN steps up ‘Renaultgate’ attack "..... I think 'aracerdude' called it correctly in the first comment..... Ron Dennis contends Renault benefitted from McLaren info but McLaren DID NOT benefit from Ferrari info. Rubbish Mr. Dennis !!! Why is Ron Dennis pushing this? It seems little more than a vendetta against old Flav. "Spying" or personel exchanges are just part of big BUSINESS ...... get over it ! Of course the WMSC screwed McLaren for no reason now they have to look like they are being 'fair' and will likely screw Renault in some way. Maybe Alonso is awaiting this situation to sort itself before he commits to Renault. Renault didn’t seem to GAIN anything from McLaren’s info, infact one might consider it RETARDED them !!!!! What I don’t understand is why this
Renault/McLaren issue is going forward. To sluff this off as an FIA project isn’t completely true, read the title of this article, “McLAREN steps up ‘Renaultgate’ attack “….. I think ‘aracerdude’ called it correctly in the first comment….. Ron Dennis contends Renault benefitted from McLaren info but McLaren DID NOT benefit from Ferrari info. Rubbish Mr. Dennis !!! Why is Ron Dennis pushing this? It seems little more than a vendetta against old Flav. “Spying” or personel exchanges are just part of big BUSINESS …… get over it ! Of course the WMSC screwed McLaren for no reason now they have to look like they are being ‘fair’ and will likely screw Renault in some way. Maybe Alonso is awaiting this situation to sort itself before he commits to Renault.

]]> By: Clive http://formula1sport.net/formula-1/mclaren-steps-up-renaultgate-attack/#comment-16770 Clive Sun, 25 Nov 2007 16:45:02 +0000 http://formula1sport.net/formula-1/mclaren-steps-up-renaultgate-attack/#comment-16770 You are still assuming that more than the ones I mentioned saw the information, Aracer. There is no proof of that so it remains speculation. But naturally knowledge is power and it helps to know what your competitor is doing - that is why they all have a close look at each other's cars in the pits. And any knowledge that McLaren have of what Ferrari are doing helps them in one way or another. But isn't that what all the engineers have been saying - that every team watches the others and takes what it can from them? They would be fools not to in an environment where small changes can make a difference. Otherwise there'd still be teams who hadn't copied Tyrrell's raised nose... You are still assuming that more than the ones I mentioned saw the information, Aracer. There is no proof of that so it remains speculation. But naturally knowledge is power and it helps to know what your competitor is doing - that is why they all have a close look at each other’s cars in the pits. And any knowledge that McLaren have of what Ferrari are doing helps them in one way or another.

But isn’t that what all the engineers have been saying - that every team watches the others and takes what it can from them? They would be fools not to in an environment where small changes can make a difference. Otherwise there’d still be teams who hadn’t copied Tyrrell’s raised nose…

]]> By: aracerdude http://formula1sport.net/formula-1/mclaren-steps-up-renaultgate-attack/#comment-16769 aracerdude Sun, 25 Nov 2007 16:32:06 +0000 http://formula1sport.net/formula-1/mclaren-steps-up-renaultgate-attack/#comment-16769 I'm sure Renault has done that. I'm saying knowledge is power. McLaren now knows exactly what the brake bias system looks like whether their unit is similar or not...they know what works in red. They know exactly what gas is in the tires...etc. The knowledge must have some value. F1 is supposed to be about making a car from scratch, knowing what others are doing can only help. I’m sure Renault has done that.

I’m saying knowledge is power. McLaren now knows exactly what the brake bias system looks like whether their unit is similar or not…they know what works in red. They know exactly what gas is in the tires…etc.

The knowledge must have some value.

F1 is supposed to be about making a car from scratch, knowing what others are doing can only help.

]]> By: Clive http://formula1sport.net/formula-1/mclaren-steps-up-renaultgate-attack/#comment-16768 Clive Sun, 25 Nov 2007 16:14:01 +0000 http://formula1sport.net/formula-1/mclaren-steps-up-renaultgate-attack/#comment-16768 So Coughlan, de la Rosa and Alonso have been helped by access to the information - no more than that was proved. But Renault have already admitted that 15 of their engineers saw the McLaren info... So Coughlan, de la Rosa and Alonso have been helped by access to the information - no more than that was proved. But Renault have already admitted that 15 of their engineers saw the McLaren info…

]]> By: aracerdude http://formula1sport.net/formula-1/mclaren-steps-up-renaultgate-attack/#comment-16767 aracerdude Sun, 25 Nov 2007 16:09:37 +0000 http://formula1sport.net/formula-1/mclaren-steps-up-renaultgate-attack/#comment-16767 I believe if you have information, it has helped you somehow. Either by giving insight at what to try or what not to try. I believe if you have information, it has helped you somehow. Either by giving insight at what to try or what not to try.

]]> By: donwatters http://formula1sport.net/formula-1/mclaren-steps-up-renaultgate-attack/#comment-16696 donwatters Fri, 23 Nov 2007 23:28:39 +0000 http://formula1sport.net/formula-1/mclaren-steps-up-renaultgate-attack/#comment-16696 I say: Good for Ron! You're right, Clive, about Briatore having it coming. What goes around comes around. I still feel McLaren's penalty was way over the top. But now the FIA has to be consistent...or look even more politicized that they currently do...even though I'm not sure that's possible. I say: Good for Ron! You’re right, Clive, about Briatore having it coming. What goes around comes around. I still feel McLaren’s penalty was way over the top. But now the FIA has to be consistent…or look even more politicized that they currently do…even though I’m not sure that’s possible.

]]> By: Andrew http://formula1sport.net/formula-1/mclaren-steps-up-renaultgate-attack/#comment-16691 Andrew Fri, 23 Nov 2007 22:05:27 +0000 http://formula1sport.net/formula-1/mclaren-steps-up-renaultgate-attack/#comment-16691 I also remember when ron dennis complained of leaked information in the stephneygate scandal and now he turns around and does the exact same thing!? f1 and its politics are getting ridiculous I also remember when ron dennis complained
of leaked information in the stephneygate
scandal and now he turns around and
does the exact same thing!?
f1 and its politics are getting ridiculous

]]> By: Clive http://formula1sport.net/formula-1/mclaren-steps-up-renaultgate-attack/#comment-16686 Clive Fri, 23 Nov 2007 18:32:26 +0000 http://formula1sport.net/formula-1/mclaren-steps-up-renaultgate-attack/#comment-16686 I don't think you can say that McLaren are doing it. They advised the FIA of the circumstances initially but after that it was the FIA's duty to show fairness in deciding investigate it. Since Renault didn't win any prizes this season, it was never going to affect any results - it's just a matter of what is source for the goose is sauce for the gander. I don’t think you can say that McLaren are doing it. They advised the FIA of the circumstances initially but after that it was the FIA’s duty to show fairness in deciding investigate it. Since Renault didn’t win any prizes this season, it was never going to affect any results - it’s just a matter of what is source for the goose is sauce for the gander.

]]> By: Andrew http://formula1sport.net/formula-1/mclaren-steps-up-renaultgate-attack/#comment-16684 Andrew Fri, 23 Nov 2007 17:51:49 +0000 http://formula1sport.net/formula-1/mclaren-steps-up-renaultgate-attack/#comment-16684 I'm having trouble understanding why mclaren are doing this since the season is over and the results are sealed. unless its for ron dennis' ego? I’m having trouble understanding why mclaren are doing this since
the season is over and the results are sealed.
unless its for ron dennis’ ego?

]]> By: Clive http://formula1sport.net/formula-1/mclaren-steps-up-renaultgate-attack/#comment-16681 Clive Fri, 23 Nov 2007 16:00:58 +0000 http://formula1sport.net/formula-1/mclaren-steps-up-renaultgate-attack/#comment-16681 I think the point is that there is more evidence that Renault used its McLaren info than there is for McLaren using Ferrari info, Aracer. If there is a hypocrite involved, it has to be Briatore, who was extremely critical of McLaren when they were being investigated. I think the point is that there is more evidence that Renault used its McLaren info than there is for McLaren using Ferrari info, Aracer. If there is a hypocrite involved, it has to be Briatore, who was extremely critical of McLaren when they were being investigated.

]]> By: aracerdude http://formula1sport.net/formula-1/mclaren-steps-up-renaultgate-attack/#comment-16680 aracerdude Fri, 23 Nov 2007 15:57:10 +0000 http://formula1sport.net/formula-1/mclaren-steps-up-renaultgate-attack/#comment-16680 McLaren sounds a bit hypocritical here saying Renault benefited with our information, but WE NEVER used Ferrari information to our advantage. McLaren sounds a bit hypocritical here saying Renault benefited with our information, but WE NEVER used Ferrari information to our advantage.

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